ptHarry

[ptHarry]

Ed: “It doesn’t matter how old people look – it’s the documentation which is required.”

There ought to be some way of challenging that. We have a well established rule (in supermarkets etc) that if a person “looks over 25” they don’t have to provide any ID.

• Does UK law (which as I understand it, Ofcom is still drafting) actually say that ID must be provided even if it is totally obvious that the person is over 25? If it does, Ofcom needs to be strongly encouraged to redraft it along the lines of the tried, trusted and more intelligent over 25 rule.
• Has Patreon invented the requirement itself, or because of pressure from Visa or Barclaycard? The UK Payments Service Regulator is currently responsible for regulating Visa and Mastercard in the UK. PSR it seems is about to be merged into FCA. When that happens, FCA should probably be asked to step in and prohibit Visa and MC from abusing their dominant position by inventing stricter rules than UK law requires. They should also, perhaps, consider requiring Patreon to be FCA regulated in respect of transactions involving UK based services or UK customers, and thereby impose the same requirement directly on Patreon. Or, if they’re not willing to regulate Patreon directly, FCA could do it indirectly by telling Visa and MC to bar service to any payment processor that fails to perform a transaction that’s legal in countries of the sender and recipient.

But all of the above hinges on the assumption that Patreon/MC/Visa have invented the silly “must provide documentation even if obviously over 25” rule. If that’s not the case, then it’s Ofcom that needs to rethink, and not (yet, at least) a matter for FCA.

Anyway, back to Bank Standing Orders. They’re nothing to do with either Visa or Mastercard.

Roughly speaking:

• when a transaction uses the 16 digit card number, that’s a visa or MC transaction
• but ordinary transactions (including Faster Payments and Bank Standing Orders) that use sort code and account number don’t go via either visa or MC. I don’t know the exact mechanism, but they probably go direct between the banks concerned or use a different intermediary.

The distinction is confirmed in PSR’s own document at https://www.psr.org.uk/information-for-consumers/ways-of-paying/

That also confirms that PSR (and presumably FCA when PSR is merged into it) is responsible for regulating both types of payment. So, if a UK bank tried to impose arbitrary restrictions over and above what the law requires of the bank,

Bank standing orders are probably not quite so convenient for the sender or recipient. A standing order needs to be set up on the bank’s web site rather than the recipient’s. And I’ve never received a standing order payment, so I’m not sure whether the recipient would be notified if a standing order payment failed, or was cancelled. But because visa and Mc are not involved, it’s worth considering if the unrealistic rules are purely the result of unnecessary interference by Visa and Mc.

[ptHarry]

Oops, an unfinished sentence there 🙁

It should say “That also confirms that PSR (and presumably FCA when PSR is merged into it) is responsible for regulating both types of payment. So, if a UK bank tried to impose arbitrary restrictions over and above what the law requires of the bank, FCA could in theory remonstrate with the bank for abusing their dominant position.

I found an example of where either the FCA or the Chancellor (then Jeremy hunt) seemed to be worried about banks abusing their dominant position, with the FCA reply:

banks are subject to the Payment Accounts Regulations which require that a consumer’s access to a payment account is not denied on the basis of a range of characteristics, including legally-held political views.

That would seem very similar to “performing a legally permitted activity” which is what we would be asking the bank to do, though I’m not aware what that “range of characteristics” actually states, or the question that was originally asked. But it does rather suggest that either FCA or the Chancellor wanted to ensure FCA had the power to stop the banks abusing their dominant position.

[ptHarry]

Greater London would be ideal for me. Some places in home counties might be possible, depending on trains and local buses. Or a bit further (eg Birmingham) if there’s a direct train.

Ed likes this

[ptHarry]

The big hall is £19 an hour for locals or £21 an hour for business.

That seems fairly typical for local community centres but cheaper rates may be available off peak or for smaller rooms, especially in less popular areas.

The problem is that many of them are run by churches or local councils, who might not appreciate having naked bodies in or around their building. A possible answer to that would be to look for places where there are regular nude life drawing classes. Actually, life drawing (in pairs, model and artist both naked, two minutes to draw then swap model and artist) seems like a reasonable experiment subject. If the emphasis is on participation rather than artistic merit and and the model gets to keep the drawing, that might be acceptable where having a photo taken would not — but a headless version could possibly be included in the experiment report.

[ptHarry]

Update: despite what I said before, it looks as if I might be able to get to Leonardslee (or more precisely, might be able to get home the same evening).

bustimes.org is showing evening buses back to Horsham in June, but traveline.info (which I normally use for journeys outside London) isn’t.

It seems I need to wait until mid April to find out which one is correct.

 

 

 

John likes this

[ptHarry]

Do bank standing orders have the same problem?

• Is Patreon inventing rules that are over and above what UK regulations require?
• Do bank standing orders have the same problem?

Web sites that serve the UK are supposed to be regulated by Ofcom, not by arbitrary rules imposed by payment processors. Patreon doesn’t seem to be regulated (at least, not under UK law) but I would hope that if any UK bank tried to impose restrictions over and above what ofcom and or UK law requires, the UK FCA or other regulator should insist that the banks handle all lawful payments.

[ptHarry]

Reading would be good for me and probably other Londoners (it’s westward limit of free travel for senior citizens with a Freedom Pass).

Weekdays are also good too, assuming arrival is not needed before 11:30am.

But finding another 2M + 3F still seems like an insurmountable problem.

Ed likes this

[ptHarry]

A2: Yes only mixed
B2: report but no photo or B3: report with blurred photos. Or perhaps report with AI illustrations not including personal identification (not real face, real name etc).
C1: would be willing to pay £60. Would be willing to pay more if some can’t.
D1: Indoor only but could include outdoor if held in a private space
E2: touching while clothed or undressing, perhaps more by consent on the day

[ptHarry]

@seasider

If you’re away for a while, a good place to go after logging in is https://community.nakedexperiment.com/activity/ which has a complete list of recent forum posts, newest first. Click on the time (eg 10 hours ago) of a specific post to get to its containing thread if you want to reply.

Note however that it doesn’t include blog posts or replies to them. The only place you’ll find a list of those is the Latest Blog Comments though that only shows the newest 5. Usually that’s enough, but unusually there have been more than 5 blog comments in the last week. There’s no way (as far as I know) of seeing a list of blog comments beyond the 5th, other than opening every blog post that’s not in the list individually.

 

Ed and John like this

[ptHarry]

Ed’s original reply is here: https://community.nakedexperiment.com/forums/topic/ladies-experiment-question/#post-20270

 

Ed likes this

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